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Should we stay or should we go? The outs just have it in the most extensive European Union referendum survey of East Anglia

The Union flag behind the European Union flag Tim Ireland/PA Wire

The Union flag behind the European Union flag Tim Ireland/PA Wire

East Anglia’s electorate would opt to take Britain out of the European Union if a vote were held tomorrow, our exclusive poll reveals.

The academic view

Chris Hanretty, Reader in Politics, University of East Anglia with an expertise in polling, said: “This poll shows that East Anglia is at odds with the rest of the UK: whilst the rest of the country leans very very slightly to staying in the EU, East Anglia looks as though it’s got one foot out of the door already.

“That’s not surprising to me: in the general election, UKIP racked up lots of votes in East Anglia, and did particularly well in coastal towns compared to the big cities.

“The big unknown, of course, is turnout. This isn’t a general election: every vote really does count. So if, say, Norwich turns out to vote at a very much higher rate than places around the coast from Yarmouth down, then the result could be very different”

But the remain and leave campaigns have all to play for with almost one third of 1,280 people we spoke to in Norfolk, Suffolk, east Cambridgeshire and north Essex still undecided about which box they will tick when referendum polling day arrives.

Reporters from our network of Eastern Daily Press and East Anglian Daily Times offices conducted the poll in centres across our region last week as David Cameron heads into a crucial few days in his negotiations with European leaders to agree new terms for Britain.

He hopes to strike a deal when the leaders of the 28 European Union member states meet in Brussels this week.

Our poll shows that 38pc of the 1,280 people we spoke to would vote to leave, 34pc would vote to stay and a further 28pc do not know what they will do when the referendum is held, on a date before the end of 2017.

Labour Euro MP Richard Howitt, who is campaigning for Britain to remain, said: “I’m not at all surprised by those results. It shows it is all to play for.

“I think those people who are assuming that Britain will vote to stay in and may not bother to vote themselves should heed these results. The referendum could be lost and if they want Britain to stay in the EU they have to vote.”

But a key campaigner to leave the European Union, Douglas Carswell, the UK Independence Party’s only MP and a University of East Anglia graduate, said the results were very encouraging.

“It shows that everything hinges on the undecided. That is why we must run an upbeat, optimistic, internationalist campaign. The safe option is to vote to take back control from Brussels,” he said.

Britain Stronger in Europe spokesman James McGrory said the polls were all over the place at the moment, but the huge number of undecided showed there was a huge amount to play for in this referendum debate.

But he pointed out there was still no date set for the referendum.

“It shows that in East Anglia, like the rest of the country, there are a huge number of people who have not made up their mind.

“We will be telling them that Britain is stronger, safer and better off in Europe.”

But Conservative Euro MP David Campbell-Bannerman, a long-time eurosceptic, who last week organised a cross-party “Brexit” conference, said: “The poll is quite consistent with national polls. It shows leave edging ahead.

“But the big swing will come when people see through the non-deal and lack of any meaningful reform, and embrace a freer, happier, more secure, and wealthier life outside the European Union.”

Liberal Democrat former minister Norman Lamb said: “I think it will be a close fought campaign this and I think the poll demonstrates there are a significant number of people who are undecided about this.

“That is the crucial group really and it is up to those of us who believe Britain’s future is best served remaining part of the EU to make the case effectively and convince people. I am not a starry eyed enthusiast, but that makes me determined to campaign to change it rather than leave it.

“I think it would be seriously not in our interests to leave.

“We have big challenges on migration, climate change, international crime ahead. The idea we are better able to manage those challenges on our own rather than work across Europe would be misplaced. I am clear our future must be part of the EU.”

•Would you vote to leave or stay in the EU? You can leave your comments below

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123 comments

  • Despite the BBC bending over backwards for the PM, giving him more publicity thjan ever before with an army of reporters here there and everywhere, Camerons aims , apart from rattling the door, have failed the compassion test. His initial refusal to take any of the fleeing refugees has scuppered his deal and now the pirates in the City of London are worried that they will have to agree to the 0.01% financial transactions tax on their algorithmic dealings. But we must not worry too much, tax evasion will carry on, many small traders will now also wake up to it, not just multinationals, hallo Ikea, the gap between rich and poor will increase further, the sole aim of apprentice Osborne.

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    ingo wagenknecht

    Friday, February 19, 2016

  • Rhombus. ..tend to agree..lots on here are just anti Europe and conflate everything European as EU when many are not related. No rational argument can be had. Oddly siting here in Europe many of our European friends have similar views as to reform...but want to do it constructively. The UK (or will that just be England) should be leading Europe...not dragging it's feet as it passes into relative obscurity dreaming of past glories in the cloud cuckoo land of yesteryear.

    Report this comment

    Normal4Norfolk

    Tuesday, February 16, 2016

  • Can we just assess what farmers will receive in subsidy from the English state, what relations with an Independent European Scotland, a European Ireland are going to pan out as. Will we all support fracking everywhere when Scotlands few and dwindling gasoil reserves are cut off ? What will happen when our unfair voting system allows our manipulating, self serving representatives to flog off the NHS to US multinationals who are after profits alone, not for paying taxes here in blighty and who have already the support of 206 Lords and MP's, most of them Conservatives? Where are we going top place Trident, are we going to build a museum for it? maybe those so confidently out would like to start putting some flesh on to their bones.

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    ingo wagenknecht

    Tuesday, February 16, 2016

  • I am not sure whether the antis on here are anti the EU (a trading block) or just anti Europe. If they are anti Europe, then no amount of evidence to show the negative effects of leaving the EU will dissuade them from their view......Andy, you are anti Europe aren't you?......England for the english and all that stuff.

    Report this comment

    Rhombus

    Tuesday, February 16, 2016

  • @andy - I'm not sure I understand the need for the sarcastic insult, it's especially galling coming from you, given they you earlier stated; "You can always tell when the left is losing the argument when they start name calling". Oh well I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm not the sort of chap who would suggest that someone's credibility is on the line for resorting to that sort of cheap shot, but that others on here who would be quick to jump to such hysterical language. To return to the point I've just checked out Richard Bacons voting record. Whilst he might not always represent my particular point of view I'm comfortable that his record represents the will of the majority of his south norfolk constituents. That's the joy of democracy sometimes (quite often in fact) I disagree with his opinion but I respect him for having it and appreciate that there is room for debate and discussion.

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Tuesday, February 16, 2016

  • Dear oh dear. New name same old R! It must be an incredible burden on you with such intellect and to be correct all the time. I do of course hesitate to make any further comment on democracy but as you say, it is where the public elect representatives to express their will. You are indeed most fortunate, whether you are in the UK or Scicly, if you have an MP who represents the majority of their constituents. Enjoy the wine.

    Report this comment

    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy - if you aren't misunderstood I can only assume you are being intentionally mendicious. That's a shame but it's your right to misrepresent the evidence as you see fit. You'd vote out, I'd (as it stands at the moment with the information I have) vote to stay so we'd cancel each other out. Perfect, democracy in action! Ps @alfredsmith- if we didn't have a referendum and our MP's vote on the matter that's still democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy where we elect MP's to represent the will of the majority of their constituents. Ergo each and every vote in parliament pure democracy. You can't say we are being denied our democratic voice if you don't understand the basic premise of democracy. There are plenty of poor souls all around the world who are genuinely denied a democratic voice, we in the uk certainly do not fall into that category.

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    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • British politicians have a history of giving up more to the EU. Blair did and Brown promised us a referendum before the last treaty which is far reaching and will lead to union. Cameron said he wanted fundamental change but clearly did not. No misunderstanding.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • just back from France, the locals want rid of Hollande, the EU reformed,Calais back the way it used to be and France for the French.Hollande is promising to review the Code de Travail to try and win a few votes also sticking a few looney Greens as junior ministers. He stands more chance of getting a snowball out of hell that getting re elected so where does that leave France.So the FN will not get in and then you have Sarkosi, Juppe and other centre right charisma bypass candidates. With reading the Archant poll they should get fiction writer of the year award. Sorry Martin if we go, ,the bright side is that we get rid of Nicola McLenin, Jeremy Corbyn and Clive Lewis.Every cloud has a silver lining.

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    francophile

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • just where did this bit about being a unified europe come from . All 28 countries at this moment are arguing and fighting amongst themselves and have been for some time now . Europe is in total chaos at this moment in time and things look like they are getting worse . Lets get out now before the whole lot collapses

    Report this comment

    sidjones811

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy - ps. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the motive of the eu is greater unity, but we are outside of it. We already have a special relationship with our fiscal rebate and our position that we will not be involved in political union. That's the status quo. To suggest that if we voted to stay things would be different or we would suddenly be drawn inextricably towards greater Union is, as you say, either a misunderstanding or dishonest on your part.

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy - you'd have to ask the moderator regarding my naughtiness or otherwise. I'm not sure I agree that the unknown is propoganda...I think it's a matter of fact. I I don't believe that you or any of the other pro exist agitators could honestly look anyone in the eye and truthfully say that all the current trade and employment arrangements will remain unchanged. You might well believe that it will be so, you may hope it will be or have a heart felt feeling that it will be..but my point is you don't know for a fact. It is therefore a risk. I would suggest that a change in circumstance such as is being suggested leaves the door open to all of our trade partners to try and renegotiate the terms of their respective agreements. That's just simple good business. They'll all see an opportunity to improve their terms to our detriment. So much modern business depends on market stability....should we leave the eu the market will definitely wobble given the uncertainty that will lie ahead. I, on the strength of the evidence as it stands, can't see any good reason to take that risk.

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Linda you clearly didnt watch the news before you wrote your anti scaremonger message. Do you really think we can leave the eu and go back to the way it was? - now that is naivity in action. Already there is talk of the others ganging together to stop the UK from getting the upper hand. We need to prepare for this if we wish to go alone.

    Report this comment

    Jonno65

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • get out ... just heard Serbia is trying to join the EU , yet another country who will contribute less and get more out our biggest trade partner is China , which i last heard was outside the EU.....lol

    Report this comment

    Norwich

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • The US is quite different to Europe. Although with regard to the former, I wonder if native Americans would agree with you? On reflection perhaps it is a good example of what many people fear? It is a fundamental tenant of the EU to achieve political union and to pretend otherwise shows either a misunderstanding or is dishonest. Nothing that Cameron pretends he wants alters that. Equally pretending that leaving is stepping into the unknown is pro-propaganda, it would be no such thing. Incidentally R, are you growing up a bit? I see you are now 3 or have you been a naughty boy (or girl) again?

    Report this comment

    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • this shoddy deal done by cameron has just given the out campaign a huge victory . This is also the end of the EU

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    sidjones811

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @alfredsmith - that's pretty irrelevant old thing. Perhaps you missed it but it is happening (apparently), so how we got here is inconsequential. Also it's not a party political issue, I wonder why you think it is? Odd

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Cameron's pathetic negotiations deserve nothing more than a resounding out vote.

    Report this comment

    Steely Dan

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • this is the EU referendum the labour party didn't want you to have . .Its our democratic right to decide our own future and the labour party wanted to deny us this democratic right

    Report this comment

    alfredsmith177

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • this is the EU referendum the labour party didn't want you to have . .Its our democratic right to decide our own future and the labour party wanted to deny us this democratic right

    Report this comment

    alfredsmith177

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy - America seem to have managed it reasonably well. Lots of separate states with their own unique identities but who work well together. They also manage migratation better than most, although I'll grant you they have a long way to go in term of race relations. The odd thing and where, if you permit me to interject, your argument falls short is that no one is suggesting we have closer ties with our European cousins. We are talking about effectively keeping a slightly tweaked status quo or plunging into the unknown. For some salient points and comparative information refer to the recent Scottish referendum. Lots of mud slung in both sides but in the final analysis the fear of the unknown trumped all the rhetoric. We're a small c conservative nation by nature and the choice to jump headlong into the abyss with only the promise of it will probably be ok is, frankly, a decision that the great British public, in my opinion, will not make.

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob44 "when the UK comes out of the EU 'Brits' will find it difficult to work in the EU, you may even need a visa to go there on holiday." WHY? Brits worked in Europe long before we joined the EU, just the same as they went on holidays there too, without a Visa! Your comments smack of more scaremongering to me.

    Report this comment

    Linda Sinclair

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @frank - I'm afraid you've been misled old thing...if you search for the no literature for the no campaign of 1975, the warnings are clearly there. They talk about the uk become a province of a European superstate and set out clearly that laws will be made in eu (then called the eec but it's the same difference) and all the rest. The fact of the matter is that it's the same argument now as then and as the 'poll' shows the overwhelming majority who voted yes in 1975 now think no. The reason I hear you ask, simple...at the time they were looking forward and thinking about their own job prospects and economic prospects, now they are in deaths waiting room, retired and happily bankrupting the country by drawing their inflation busting pensions they don't care about the future...oh well it's all academic because after the referendum we will be staying in

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    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Leaving aside all the smaller arguments, the problem is this is a socialist experiment that shows every sign of starting to fail. It was Lenin who proposed such a superstate without borders and we all known what happened to the USSR. The reality is that no one has yet managed to build a superstate successfully whether by force or not. People have national identities which they don't want to lose and no one can force them to. There is a serious democratic deficit within the EU, not helped by the power of some leaders, such as Merkel, and we are seeing a rise of nationalistic parties throughout the EU. The EU has been unable to get its budget approved for 21 years now. I think Schengen and the Euro are both struggling and may well fail. Political union is a pipe dream. The supposed belief the EU has brought us peace is propaganda that ignores what NATO has achieved - the true bringer of peace to the continent. The supposed threats about trade, etc are largely scare stories as are many other others that seek to persuade or scare us in to voting to stay in. Out of the EU we can choose what to do or not whereas at the moment we have no choice. Those in favour should also study history!

    Report this comment

    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy - "your credibility depends on it!". I think you might be taking this talking shop all a bit too seriously dear.

    Report this comment

    Rushallchap3

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • ...."undemocratic, sovereignty-usurping super-state"....and now the British Democrat Party have popped in to add their words of wisdom.

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    Rhombus

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob 44 No, I was 13 in 1975 & at that time starry-eyed about the "wonders" of the EEC. We've had decades of pro-EU properganda brainwashing the young from all the main parties, the BBC, schools & many of the papers. It's only over time by watching closely as an engaged adult that it became clear what a fraud the EU is & how it provides a gravy train for compliant politicians. It is not for the people but for big money & big buisiness, administrated by mediocre politicos. I also note how posters like you(not only you of course) bulk out these comments reacting to everybody who disagrees with them. While you are free to do that, it smacks of immature bullying to need to try to shout-down opposition rather than making your case in 1 or 2 posts & leaving it at that. The more people post, especially picking-up others posts, the less I regard them.

    Report this comment

    Frank

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Frank; you had the opportunity to vote in or out in 1975. What has happeend since is that the MEP's you have sent to the EU parliament have let you down by not telling you the benefits of membership. A market is a market & to be so has to have a level playing field. The reality is that, in the UK costs are so high & inefficiency so bad we cannot compete. That doesn't make the EU wrong does it?

    Report this comment

    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Dave123 - When we leave expect most if not all EU directives to be replaced with similar UK 'directives' which means just as much red tape (or the same shaped bananas) - of course if our 'lesser' red tape leads to significant competitive advantages over the native EU states (less worker rights for instance) then expect trade tariffs to follow much as there is between us and USA or China for instance (steel being a contention at the moment). As an exporter (that pays our international bills) all I can say is that I don't want any paper work in buying and selling Hi-Tech in or out of Europe. If you're only a 'local' business then I guess Europe doesn't matter. Frankly - I'm happy to leave Europe but in the full acceptance of the economic calamity that might follow. Anyway - oddly enough plane to catch - got to balance up our EU trade!

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • No doubt.... out.

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    ATaylor

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • We joined an economic trading union, not an undemocratic, sovereignty-usurping super-state that makes dissenting electorates re-vote until they give the pro-EU result the technocrats demand. I have no doubt if what it would become had been known in 1975 at the last referendum, we'd have voted to leave. We've been sold a lie & subsumed into monster. We need to regain our national sovereignty first & foremost before the only way to exit is by armed revolt, God forbid. We should be an independant parlimentary democracy, not a marginal fief of a greater uber-European empire.

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    Frank

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Jonno65; it is a pity the EU vote is going to be based not on realities but on 'immigration'.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • dave 123; I forgot, how do you expect your business to increase? You will still have to follow EU rules if you want to trade in the EU as does Norway & Switzerland.. Of course if you want to trade outside the EU why are you not doing that now?? I asked earlier what read tape from the EU was holding you back I notice you have named nothing so presume there are no impediments?

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • dave 123; I don't know what your business is but when teh UK leaves the EU expect the red tape to increase. You may find you will need visas to work in the EU. How naive are you?

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob 44- You are talking out of your backside, we expect our business to increase significantly with the removal of all the EU red tape and stupid rules introduced to favour other EU countries. With regard to Visa applications get real.... a passport will still suffice.

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    dave123

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Jonno; it is difficult to have a civilised debate on the EU when the politicians major on immigration and 'in-work-benefits' & the population can't realise this shows the UK is in real trouble

    Report this comment

    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • At last we start to hear the real arguments rather than the 'We're doomed' mobs

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    Jonno65

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Normal4norfolk; you are probably wasting your time. The fact that one of the national dailys carried a feature today that shows a not inconsierable number of companies who will leave or consider leaving if the vote goes OUT. I really do wonder where people think they will get work and what the other considerable downside may be.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Thanks normal - somebody who backs their convictions with facts - As for the ignorant who believe that all immigrants commit atrocities on innocent people - listen here - they don't! it is a reason to protect our borders but not close them - remember hundreds of these so called haters have left the UK to fight overseas. In or Out is a massive subject and it would be foolish to base it on immigration or cost alone. Any farmers on here who could explain how their industry has been shaped over the years by being in europe?

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    Jonno65

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • andy; it may come as a surprise to you but when the UK comes out of the EU 'Brits' will find it difficult to work in the EU, you may even need a visa to go there on holiday. If you actually took any notice of what is going on you would see the UK is now finding it difficult to sell into the EU & the balance of payments e.g. imports V exports show the worst performance in the UK's history. I doubt you will understand that either.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • This isn't about the colour of your politics. Its about what is good for the UK. Why can't we send convicted terrorists home? Why should some unknown in Brussels overturn a decision by our highest law makers? Why do they need to move locations at a huge cost every six months just to appease. Why can't they get their finances right? Why do they dictate to us what we must pay them? No austerity in Euro land, but we're suffering at home. Yes we made some businesses in Europe but when we joined we dumped our Commonwealth partners. People that supported us andf fougght and died with us were left out on a limb. They are still there and all potential trading partners. The Brits have always traded globally. We don't need this mill stone around our necks. Get rid of the red tape and shackles that restrict us. Stop treating us as idiots.

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    Andy T

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • All I want is to remove the arguments of the plain ignorant and look at facts - and not wishful thinking on either side. The argument is in or out of the EU on slightly improved terms. For me its 'in' as I vote for jobs and wages and believe that's important for my and other business and the British people generally. There are problems within the EU but I think its better to fix them from within (with like minded friends) than think we can go it alone just as it was last century. The French are already plotting the demise of London as financial centre should we leave (HSBC say today 1000 jobs would relocate to Paris). Immigration is a global issue, but if you want a common market you have to have freedom of common labour to travel - that's what Maggie et al did. Schengen, Terrorism, Euro, Human Rights Act are just not part of the discussion in any direct form (oddly UK and Ireland are in EU and out of Schengen whereas Norway and Switzerland are out of the EU but in Schengen - but when EU says jump its how high). Sadly I fear we will leave followed by a lot of hi-tech jobs and ultimately become the little kid brother to the mighty EU much as Eire is to the current UK (no disrespect to my good Irish friends).

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @andy ,,Don't waste your time or breathe mate . None of his posts or arguments make any sense whatsoever

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • N4N re Schengen. Just wanted to try to get Rob admit he is talking nonsense. An impossible task I know....... and he cant even spell Schengen correctly. His latest nonsense on this is that he says I want to stop UK citizens working in the EU!!!! Absolute drivel of course but then, as I have said before, he tends to ignore facts as well as making up statements that no one has said. ZERO credibility.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • jeremy corbyn is demanding that we open up our borders in the uk . Take note what has happened in cologne and across germany . There are millions more migrants on their way and only an insane person or party would demand open borders after the sickening attacks on women across europe

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I predicted.the Human Rights act would come up.....absolutely nothing it do with the EU. We can leave the EU and that will still exist. Such is the insane level of this debate. Hopeless.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @rob44,,Thats why we need total control of our borders . Thats why we need to remove the human rights act . Thats why we need to be able to choose who comes here and who doesn't . Thats why we need to leave the EU.

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I was initially pleased to see that this topic had generated 72 comments. Well, now that I've read them all I am none the wiser. I don't understand the pros and cons of the EU. Does anybody? And will any of the campaigns groups be able to set out a clear case In or Out which non-expert people will be able to grasp? I doubt it. I do know which way I'm going to vote. Remain. Why? Because if the UK opts for Brexit, Scotland will interpret that as a pretext to hold another referendum on independence... and if Scotland breaks away from the Union we will be saddled with a Tory majority government in London for generations to come. Unthinkable.

    Report this comment

    martin wallis

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • So, billysmith, you believe if the UK leaves the EU the terrorist threat will end? Do you also believe in the tooth fairy?

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • The effectiveness of both campaigns will depend on leadership.For Leave to win,a big Tory beast like Boris Johnson needs to captain the ship.Otherwise the highly toxic Farage will lead large sections of the electorate into the opposite camp,which is maybe what he really wants as he himself,and his party, give no sign of wanting to depart the highly lucrative EU gravy train.Nigel Lawson too hardly advertises his non-EU credentials from his home in France.Equally toxic, Tony Blair needs to back off as his interventions for Remain will only have the opposite effect of what he intended,especially among Labour voters, as he did in the Labour leadership campaign,as will Mandelson and Kinnock,both of whom have done very nicely thank you from the same vested interests as Farage.Cameron,too,is far too desperate for his own survival after his sham "negotiation".Sir John Major is far better equipped to gain consensus for Remain who simply cannot solely rely on Project Fear to continue our membership of this very expensive club for bankers.

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    Peter Watson

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I give up. ...There isn't one argument here that stands up to any scrutiny....Cologne is the latest...I suppose 7..7 didn't happen or was that the fault of the EU as well. There are global issues all counties face...some exceptional. Trying to conflate these with the benefits or otherwise of EU membership leads me to despair of any rational argument.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • We give the EU colossal sums of money for them to give us back what they think we need ! Lets get OUT !

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    Albert Cooper

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • look what has happened in europe recently in cologne and many other german cities and cities across europe . The huge terrorist threat . Put that together with the economic argument and you only have one answer,, VOTE OUT

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Andy....Why all this Shengen discussion....we are not in it.....it's not really relevant any more than open borders between US States is. Nobody has proposed we join the Shengen group of countries. We have a similar no passport agreement with Ireland.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • ted; the only reason the EU may get out of control is because the MEP's you send to the EU parliament either don't go or, don't vote. You can't blame the Eu for your representatives non attendance can you now?

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • andy; when will you understand the UK is the ONLY country with an open border directly to a Shengen country? As an aside why do you wish to prevent UK citizens from earning a living ofrom the EU ?

    Report this comment

    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Thank you Rob. You have zero credibility as you clearly do not know, or don't want to admit, how things are going on borders WITHIN the Schengen area! You never let facts get in the way of your comments do you.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • It is not encumbent upon France to stop people travelling to the UK, it is up to the UK to ensure they don't enter beyond our borders - when we leave the EU don't be surprised if the French, to save money tell the UK that will need to be done in the UK, not in France. If you had travelled extensively you would have leaned that Countries in the Shegen area removed checks to expedite transition from one country to another. If you go to the southern tip of the Netherlands you will understand this better. No system is perfect and none will be but I challenge you to come up with a solution that will not be as damaging to the UK as leavign the EU - I would be happy to listen to anyone who has a valid exit plan because currently none of the Politicians do

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Jonno65; I fear people have been deliberately kept in the dark over the EU because it isn't a nation thing this is all ablout the fractions in the sitting administrations party & the inability of the leader to control it. We have lots of arguements based purely on immigration to leave with no exit plan and no mention of the pluses for staying in. It seems those who want to leave do so for purely eelfish reasons e.g. they want to deny young people the right to work in one of the biggest markets in the world maybe envious of he fact they can get a better life. When the OUT campaign actually start to make a case for leaving that will be the time to sit up & take notice but until then it is all rubbish

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • mr jenkins, with you on that one, common market was a good thing for g b , the e u is an out of control monster which will soon self destruct of its own accord.

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    ted

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I think from reading most of these comments it is clear how ignorant the average man on the street is about this referendum and what it means. It is a lot more than what we spend and what we gain - I think our politicians have a massive job to do if we are to make an educated decision. Or will they keep us ignorant and use the Alex Salmond approach and play on the emotions with patriotic lies and false promises?

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    Jonno65

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I just love the way that discussions on these forums quickly dissolve into playground name-calling worthy of six year olds. Rob44 - yes, I have a job. I'm very successful at what I've been doing for the last 35 years and even ran a company for ten years. International travel agreements mean that border controls are supposed to check that you have leave to travel out of the country you're in. The illegals don't have the documentation that allows them to travel across border controls, so France should ensure they don't travel to the UK. If you're not going to respond in a polite and considered manner, don't bother at all because it won't help your side of the discussion in any way.

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    So_Many_Haters!

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • andy; when will you do some research? Don't you know where the 'open border' between the UK & Shengen countries is? & when this falls apart why should the French do our border controls for us when we won't do them ourselves.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • northwind; if you think this is a left issue it shows you have no idea what you are posting about.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • You can always tell when the left is losing an argument when they start calling people names! Rob, last comment on the Schengen, if there are no controls over UK border, why are the people in Calais not entering at will? As you ignoring how it is working within the Schengen countries, please tell us your assessment of its current workings? Your credibility depends on it!

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • billysmith; if you haven't noticed the way in which large corporations are taking over the UK almost unopposed you are not livign in the real world. This Ik administration isn't going to stand up to big corporations, the EU has shown more positive moves which the UK wants to veto- If you don't understand you really shouldn't be commenting on it

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I hardly think that this deserves to be treated as a big news story. This "extensive" survey has gained responses from a grand total of 1,280 people and the by-line suggests that it says something meaningful about the collective view in East Anglia! Well, the 2011 census indicated that Greater Norwich alone had a population of 213,166. There were 859,400 in Norfolk alone, without adding in Suffolk and other places that make up East Anglia. Your sample size is infinitesimally small, and the article doesn't seem to offer any detailed information about how people were canvassed.

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    Trevor Ashwin

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • NW56 - This isn't a left or right discussion. Your anti Cameron comment rather gives it away.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • can anybody on here make common sense of the lefts argument to stay in the EU because i certainly can't . The lefts argument on here is as pathetic as camerons renegociation .

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    northwind56

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @rob44 ....just what has big corporations got to do with the Eu referendum ? . . Just what has big corporations got to do with my post ?. .Just what planet are you on?

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Well said SMH and Rob44 - so much twaddle is spoken of the EU - "Schengen" does not affect UK, "Human Rights Act" is not anything to do with the EU (before somebody spouts it) - neither is NATO - and the Euro (UK not in it) - well oddly it didn't collapse as many of near-sayers said - it's actually the sad pound that's weak at the moment (I hold lots of Euros so that's good). If you dislike the EU on emotional grounds like Andy that's fine - just don't try to make superfluous anti EU arguments which have no bearing on UK in or out. As to immigrants - the current irony in the old "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet" TV series would probably pass some by.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • billysmith - you really don't pay attention do you? If you did you would realise the biggest threat to the right to govern the UK does not come from the EU but by the big corproations who are pullign this governments strings. Please pay attention

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • whats at stake is the right to determine our own future and way of life . . We are rapidly losing our right to determine our own future through mass immigration . Soon we will be a minority in our own country and other races with different values will decide the future for you and your family . . Do you really want that?

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Andy your comment makes it even more stupid that the only truly 'open' border is here in the UK AND, I predict it won't close

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • so-many haters; that's not true is it? France would have to allow people to leave France and be held @ the UK border where they would have to wait while being processed. & don;t forget there are more than a milloin 'Brits' workign in the EU who may come home & take your job - if you actually have one

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob, if you have any knowledge of how the Schengen agreement is working at the moment, you should know that it is falling part. There is no longer free movement between some countries and all the signs are that borders will be tightened further, even where they are not meant to be. Still, the truth never has got in the way of those wanting to stay in the EU. I expect you think we should have joined the Euro as well?

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Richard Waugh - with the current Schengen, free passage across Europe is guaranteed. The British police are in Calais to try and prevent illegals, which is an agreement with France. If we left the EU, France would be responsible for ensuring that those crossing it's borders to England were permitted to do so. In that circumstance, it wouldn't matter if the checks were in Dover (which they used to be) as we'd be able to return any illegals found back to the source country - France - by the next train. And they're getting under the lorries because the French police don't want to do anything about it, because it means the illegals are not on French soil.

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    So_Many_Haters!

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Andy, if youhave any knowledge of the Shengen borders you will know there is only one border between a Shengen & non Shegen country that is not controlled & that is here in the UK where to go in & out of the Shengen country you do not even need a passport. The UK population need to wake up and PDQ

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Help is at hand for the BREXIT campaign. I understand that Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, John Major and even Barrack Obama are going to speak up for the UK to remain in the EU. If that is not conclusive intervention to make us vote to leave, I shall be very surprised.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • For those who think the EU is wonderful, tell us how the Schengen agreement is going at the moment? It is collapsing and one of the key much vaunted principles of free movement is falling apart. With inward migration into the EU at much higher levels than last year, how do you think Germany will react and cope with another million this year? I understand that the EU is asking for NATO to help patrol the med but with a request they return would be immigrants to whence they came.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Usual, quite unfounded and speculative scare stories are being requoted on here as a reason to be part of the EU. The so called negotiations are absolute rubbish and nowhere near what Cameron put forward prior to the election. A few minor adjustments may be given now but it is hardly a reformed EU is it? Even those will be fleeting without a treaty change which is not going to happen.

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    andy

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • So Dave 123 please tell us which red tape and trading restrictions imposed by the EU are hurting your business AND, please ensure they are imposed by the EU & not Westminster

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Dave 123; IF you could read you would see Cameron is in Paris to day to fight for the city gambiling dens that pay for his party NOT for the people. I guess you are a wealthy city banker?

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • So, using the SNP's morality, we in East Anglia can leave the EU, even if the majority of the UK votes to stay in. we have a clear and sensible majority voting to leave.

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    broadsman

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • LindaSinclair, the reason the Uk wanted to join the Eu was to be able to trade with the EU on a 'level playing field' having got the level playing field they wanted to run the EU who had different because hey wanted to keep it equitable - the UK votes in MEP's who are supposed to go to the EU to represent us - we have too many MEP's who don't do that. It's them NOT the Eu that is at fault

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Thanks Linda - Net contributions somewhere around 9 to 10B per annum. However my points still remains as well - please tell me how this is anything other than an emotional rosy tinted call for "independence" (which I do fully understand like Scotland) even if the supposed benefits of Brexit are largely mirages and the downsides very very real. Economically (that's jobs and salaries) it makes sense for us to be in (reforms accepted). Voting 'out' strikes me as a "Little Englander" mentality almost by definition.

    Report this comment

    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • JimHow, I just think the electorate need to be educated. Anyone who thinks leaving the EU is anythign but to benefit the wealthy & corporations is not living in the real world

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I voted in favour of joining Europe in the 1970s referendum but was voting to join a group of nations with special trading agreements. I didn't vote for a no borders Europe with mass migration with people free to use our NHS and benefits system and a top heavy system of government in Brussels. Would still be happy to remain in the EU if it was simply a trading group but as Cameron hasn't gained much in his negotiations will probably vote to leave.

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    Jenkins

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @Rhombus Bit of a general statement. NOT all old people vote as survey indicates. NOT all old people read the Mail. NOT all old people live in care homes. Many over 60s are still at work as the retirement age moves further and further away. Your generalisations indicate your youth and your ignoranc.

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    ZiegfriedWN

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • or maybe even more than 56 million a day, depending won what article you read! This, from the Guardian, July 2015 Britain’s contribution to the European Union budget is set to be £3.1 billion higher over the next five years than was forecast before the election. The Office for Budget Responsibility said it expects Britain’s contributions to Brussels to jump by £1.3 billion next year alone. The revisions are in part due to a reassessment by economists of the size of Britain’s economy compared to the rest of Europe. Critics will argue that it in effect means that Britain is being penalised for economic success. The increase appears in official government forecasts issued just months apart,

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    Linda Sinclair

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @Normal4Norfolk - my apologies, we pay 56 MILLION a day, every day; my question remains the same though!

    Report this comment

    Linda Sinclair

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • As Alan Partridge would say vote for an independent Norfolk. Ahaa.

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    Little fish

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • The European Court of Human Rights is Not a European Union institution

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    Daisy Roots

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • What I can do is read Rob 44- I take it you read that I voted in in the first referendum? So you are calling me naive? I suggest it is you and those who cannot see how weakened we are as a nation by the EU, who cannot see that it is not the Europarliament which dictates policy in the EU but a body which is not directly elected. As far as I am concerned being in the EU is like asking what the Romans did for us...and then coming up with some pat answers like baths, roads Latin and aqueducts and ignoring that they massacred or enslaved one eighth of the population, exploited and exported our natural resources and destroyed our existing society to such a point that we were weak in the face of invaders. Now that may sound UKIP talk but I assure you I am not - it is history. The point is do we trust our own elected government to spend our own money that we hang onto outside of the EU or will we remain net contributors to the EU and be grateful for scraps of grants and funding and some trade agreements handed down by those who leech on our economy?

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    Daisy Roots

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • @Linda - please check your £56B per day. I think you'll find you've made a HUGE error.

    Report this comment

    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Its very confusing, Im undecided,, I think? my first reaction is to be one of the sheep ,, no more immigration i bleat , we are sinking, how can they invite so many more without ensuring those here have decent access to decent wages, housing ,healthcare and schools first? and the wave of Islamic peoples,, id better not mention that i guess. But if we leave will we see the end of mass migration, what will happen to those here now ? will Leaving the Eu and the human rights charter be good for us can we trust a conservative government to keep our rights in the workplace , holiday pay , cripes even holiday entitlement , will more of us be imprisoned without a fair trial or any trial indeed? will Europe really be all handshakes and smiles and let us trade with them without a huge financial penalty, and what of our European financial capitol London , you think it would survive , maybe we would just trade in yen , guess Im being rather pessimistic , but i cant see a rosy picture for my children whichever way the vote goes ...

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    cal

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I also run a business and vote in. EU red tape - lets all swap it for the same UK red tape - BS this and that. Oh and we'll still have to meet all EU regulations if want to trade freely with EU same as the oft mentioned Norway, Switzerland et al. One thing is certain - stop harking back to the 1960s and 70s - the world is very different now. I have yet to see anything but an emotional 'hope' that all would be OK if we left - few (real) positives and many likely negatives. I'm not a gambling man.

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    Normal4Norfolk

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • another question; did we not manage as a Country before we joined the EU? Did we not trade with Europe and all over the world before we joined it......?

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    Linda Sinclair

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Richard Waugh you said "At present groups, councils etc can apply to all manner of grants to get things done at a local level ... all those fantastic projects you see "supported by the EU" will be GONE!! Farming subsidies will be out the window too under "austerity" " One question - do all these 'wonderful things', 'financial benefits' etc. equate to more, or less, than the 56 billion pounds a day it costs us to (maybe) get them?

    Report this comment

    Linda Sinclair

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Out ,self determination is far more important to a nation than economic benefits.

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    reg

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • 1,280 people polled out of how many millions? There are over 200,000 living in the Norwich Urban area alone, so hardly reliable.

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    PeeNut

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Again HOW has the EU weakened us as a country??? You realise our border is currently in Calais and if we leave the EU our border will be relocated to Dover, how is that going to help? You know how so many get in under lorries etc? Because of the cuts made by THIS government NOT the EU. Give me 5 examples of how the EU has destroyed this country? I see plenty of whining on here about the EU but not ONE PERSON has put forward a cogent informed argument citing cases, laws, rulings etc that have seriously damaged this country

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    Richard Waugh

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Layer upon Layer upon Layer.... of government! Just how many politicians ,elected and non elected do we need ? We need to say a big NO to Brussels and get our country back,to have our own laws and independence returned to our own parliament !

    Report this comment

    Albert Cooper

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob44- Typical left wing bull..t!

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    dave123

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • How exactly Dave? What regulations hamper your business?

    Report this comment

    Richard Waugh

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Expect you'll be old one day Rhombus! I have grandparents who have lived before and after EU and they fully understand what a dire situation this country is in because of the EU. It has weakened us as a nation. I will vote OUT but even if the out vote wins, I'm sure the figures will be fiddled just to keep us in and the rich will continue to grow richer and the middle classes and the poor will continue to suffer and fill the coffers. The government, personally, cannot afford to let the NO's win!!

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    Nowhere man

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Rob 44 you will find the people will protest about the lack of information from Downing Street. They will do it in the referendum and vote to leave. The majority of people are sick of being told what to do by politicians who are in it for their own benefits. You must be very very naive to think the electorate will fall for this.

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    Jimhow

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Anyone who thinks we'll be better off out is deluded. At present groups, councils etc can apply to all manner of grants to get things done at a local level do you REALLY think such schemes will continue under a Conservative government - all those fantastic projects you see "supported by the EU" will be GONE!! Farming subsidies will be out the window too under "austerity" If we leave the EU we'll be extremely vulnerable constitutionally, we don't have a written constitution, we have a notional head of state with no real powers and we have a government voted in by a MINORITY about to strip the second house of it's powers to counter balance the Commons. The US has already said you can forget trading with us under EU trading regulations and I suspect the EU will say the same so we'll face months of trade negotiations meanwhile businesses will face HUGE uncertainty over their exports. There are far too many silly silly people who are voting based on a series of headlines from a handfull of lying media outlets who aren't even owned by UK citizens. I wish people would go out and educate themselves over the EU what it does and doesn't do instead of deciding on a critical matter by reading The SunMailMirror etc. I think the majority of the electorate are too stupid to be trusted with a vote on the matter!!

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    Richard Waugh

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Another irrelevant poll taken by an establishment paper from its mainly rural Conservative readership. Whilst many students and young non voters have been purged from the electoral lists, this article is designed to influence voters before a vote, make out that its in the bag. It is quiet sad that a newspaper can blatantly try and sway voters towards its preferred outcome in a referendum that excludes all other EU citizens, but its editor could not be bothered, isn't allowed, to make a case for a fair proportional electoral system.

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    ingo wagenknecht

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Let's get out, it will make my business a lot easier to run and remove most of the red tape and restrictions placed on it by the EU.

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    dave123

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Even if we vote no the first time the govt will just find reasons to make us vote again (and again) until we vote yes... Cameron is a fanatical pro-european. And why is lab aligning itself with the pro-deregulation, pro-privatisation neo-liberal EU?

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    marty r

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Looks like if the vote goes in favour of an EU exit, the poll indicates it will be as a result of the 'old peoples' vote, who according to the poll are strongly against the EU. Who thinks that the EU vote should only be for the under 60s only, and leave the old folks to read the daily mail in their care homes. Let the younger ones decide if we exit the EU or not.

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    Rhombus

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • To actually take notice of what a poll tells you certain criteria need to be achieved. Firstly the poll has to properly representative of the populace, or the results have to appropriately weighted to account for the actual make up of the populace. Secondly, there should be a margin of error expressed on the outcome (typically the big polling companies reckon around 3% for a poll of this size overall, but on the sub-groups the margin is bigger (eg see https:yougov.co.uknews20111121understanding-margin-error) So the male split on subject is not determinable as difference less than error margin. Will Archant tell us what the actual margin of error is?

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    G_of_Norwich

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • So you don't understand what the EU has done for this region daisy? You mut be either very young or, very, very naive

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • This charade of an in out referendum is , as with anything else coming out of No10 entirely dishonest. From the Archant columns it is patently obvious that very few people understand or want to understand the EU. I very much doubt many people even understand how much of their employment is dependent on the EU let alone how much business is being lost by the mismanagement of the UK's European affairs. Instead of getting down to the nitty gritty of the pro's & con's of EU membership we have been stuck on immigration and benefits. In reality this argument shows just how bad the UK economy realy is and, when a government is bound up in majoring on 'in work benefits' the people should be really concerned. If the UK was a first world country there would be no such thing as 'in work benefits' only support for those thrown out of work by circumstances. Politics has been donwgraded considerably by the proposed 'referendum' which let's face it has little to do with our EU membership but more to do with No10's inability to control the right wing of the party. The 'outers' mention Norway without pointing out Norway pays as much into the EU as the UK does without getting anything out and their businesses have to maintain offices in EU countries to get access to the gazzette & other data the UK curently enjoys via membership. The 'outers' continaully promote the benefits of being outside the EU without actually putting any meat on the bones, is that because, other than their own selfish gains there are no benefits to either the UK or its population? How many 'outers' want to destroy the hard won gains in living standards and human rights we have from being in the EU? Will you need a visa to go on holiday? maybe, but you will almost certainly need a work permit to work there something the people ofnEast Anglia have long time benefitted from and may well lose. We hear non of this. In a democratic country the pro's & con's would have been made public but presently we are being asked to vote on something that looks like being aclosely guarded secret in Downing Street. An entirely unacceptable situation that we, the people are stupid not to protest about.

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    Rob44

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • the OUT campaign are going to win by a landslide

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    billy smith

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • I never thought I'd say it but I entirely agree with Daisy Roots.

    Report this comment

    el dingo

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Stoneman - what has that got to do with this subject? In some areas you can get someone's toenail clippings elected if it's painted red. That's besides the point, as even within the major parties opinions are split. Sportswagon - what are people "inward looking" because they don't agree with your point of view? Surely you should be putting forward a well-crafted and reasoned argument as to why we should remain, otherwise you just come across as ignorant and "inward looking" as the people you're accusing.

    Report this comment

    So_Many_Haters!

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Out - let's rough it like Switzerland and Norway.

    Report this comment

    F G HOB

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Tell me what is backward about understanding that the EU has done little for this region or the UK when it comes down to it? Dont make this about UKIP or migration or accuse brexit supporters of being inward looking. Instead look at the faux conceits of EU supporters who kid themselves they are people of the world because they can jolly across borders . Surprise surprise we worked in Europe before and we work all over the world now. Yes we have gained non EU businesses which have used the UK as a pass into european markets and yes they might quit but this has come at an enormous cost. Not just what we pay into the union, not just the undemocratic rule of EU bureacracy but the effect upon how this country is governed by our own government. The UK has been used as a cash cow, it is time we kept our own money to spend it as we see fit, not on subsidising new entrant nations. I voted yes to an economic union years ago, not to this political monster which has been exposed as useless in all respects by the Syria conflict. Young people should look at all the pros and cons and not assume being in the EU is the default just because they cannot remember anything else. Nor should they assume that leaving would be a retrograde step.

    Report this comment

    Daisy Roots

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Everyone I speak to wants out of it, so I am unsure of any polls.

    Report this comment

    John L Norton

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Backward, inward looking and stuck in the 20th century is all that this poll shows!

    Report this comment

    Sportswagon

    Monday, February 15, 2016

  • Who on earth takes any notice of polls,in this area you paint a pig blue it will voted for.

    Report this comment

    stoneman

    Monday, February 15, 2016

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